Hospital bosses reassure MPs in meeting (From Clacton and Frinton Gazette)

In the words of a 1960s personality; "He would say that, wouldn't he?".
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Boss says we did nothing out of order, we were kind and caring blah, blah, blah, here are some figures I found to prove it.
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MPs say "OK, we've done our visit, all is well, move on to the next photo opportunity".

It's the previous director of Colchester hospital who should take most of the responsibility.
BUT BET HE WON'T.
It was Peter Murphy who wrote patronising letters to families following previous scandals.
'Thank you for bringing this to our attention, we could learn from this'.
Could?
Could but didn't!
Investigating Colchester hospital is long overdue.

rhetoric wrote:
In the words of a 1960s personality; "He would say that, wouldn't he?".
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Boss says we did nothing out of order, we were kind and caring blah, blah, blah, here are some figures I found to prove it.
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MPs say "OK, we've done our visit, all is well, move on to the next photo opportunity".

Precisely. If the MPs are concerned, they should be speaking to the nurses and doctors and hearing what they have to say.

Of course the Chief Exec is going to say everything is OK, nothing to be concerned about, just a blip in the figures, all the indicators show this hospital is improving year on year etc etc. All the senior management will say that.

Reading some of the stories on another thread about this, it is clear that there is a problem with how some people´s stays in hospital go.

Part of being management should be asking the awkward questions, and making sure that the answers given are true.

There are many good people working at the hospital, I know quite a few of them, but if there are systemic failures, they need to be confronted, not flippantly swept under the carpet.

What may have a factor is over 60% of the doctors are foreign trained and the language barrier is sometimes shockingly bad to patients and colleagues. Why we can't train UK doctors is beyond me.

There you go I've said it. Some hysterical people will call me a racist for speaking the truth but we live in a democracy and free speech is still legal.

It's not just a language barrier. Having sat for five minutes whilst a doctor explained to a deaf woman her poor chances of survival it is no wonder their performance is bad. The woman was needlessly scared not knowing what was happening to her. Bring back the matrons and stop sub contracting the cleaning to companies that exploit the mainly cheap foreign labour.Also double check the so called "qualifications" achieved abroad and the staff's ability to understand the written/verbal instructions on the patient care. This might go some way to reducing the mortality rate in our hospitals!

Typical politicians whitewash, we have checked and all's fine.
Well it ain't, I have recently spent time in Colchester Hospital and have also watched relatives die in there with Cancer, plenty of work to be done.
Some fantasic staff who are carrying more than enough passengers that drift about the place in a trance like state.
More first class supervision is needed but as always the people who matter are the first to be lost by those above in the pecking order, managers do not sack each other.

I think the MPs and other interested or investigating bodies should speak to the patients or their relatives to ascertain the truths of these matters.
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Don't let the authorities talk down to and patronise the public! Ok, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but in general the public are much better informed and educated than of yore, and are not idiots when it comes to observation and understanding of what goes on and what does not.
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Anyone who has seen the emotional cry for help from Ann Clwyd MP will realise that there is something vastly wrong. She can't bring back her husband but is bravely tackling the question of "writing off" patients who are frightened, in pain or discomfort, and who badly want to live - albeit with their disabilities. It has become a question of a Ward Consultant who does not know the patient, summing up what has been wrong with that patient over the years, and coming to a sum that equals "let 'em die". There is no consultation about the quality of life the patient enjoys at home, and their will to live. The ways in which they die amount to worse than torture, and if endured in a prison would be an international scandal, but hey, doctors know what they're doing! (not).
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The comment about asking the doctors and nurses what is going on, is well meant but rather pointless as the many good ones mistakenly close ranks to protect the rubbish ones and the cruel ones.
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The best story I have heard is of the hospital where there were quite a few complaints, nobody would step forward and point the finger, and so the ward was closed and ALL staff suspended. Way to go! With suspension noted on your records, you're going to think twice about lying to protect the rubbish colleague or two. I heard this ward full of elderly patients was decanted into various other wards, the elderly patients were over the moon to see a bit of life, the young ones liked having a granny or grandad figure to talk to them when they themselves were a bit frightened about forthcoming procedures or felt homesick, and the mood in general was lightened.
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rhetoric wrote:
In the words of a 1960s personality; "He would say that, wouldn't he?".
.
Boss says we did nothing out of order, we were kind and caring blah, blah, blah, here are some figures I found to prove it.
.
MPs say "OK, we've done our visit, all is well, move on to the next photo opportunity".

Everything all Hunky Dory then....
Really???? done a great job there...
Two top politicians Hoodwinked by Mr Super Smooth...
I Dont Think So?
1. Number what is this persons acreditation anyway?
2. Whats with the bleached hair doo?
3. When they came here they replaced a top boss with problems at the trust. Why has the issues continued????
When my brother was in there, a team of bosses and important day visitors by passed his room, because they knew they were going to get the truth if they stopped in there for tea and bics:
The whole things a joke 2,500 DEAD yes that is what it said in the press to- night, TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DEAD unless i misread the quote.
That is a worse casualty rate than some of our Battlefronts God Bless Them All++++
Sir Bob & The Rt Hon Jenkins needs to start pushing buttons behind the scenes.
Looks and front do not mean a thing in a game like this.
This is dangerous political publicity machine at work backed up by Dark Carrying's on.
I mean what is going on in this Town.
We had the worst reported violence of stabbing and attacks I have seen in 35 years.
There is a £125,000 Masonic Scandal going on, in one of the largest combined Lodges in the Country:
Now we are being told we are One Of The Five Top Trusts Being Investigated, as someone stated on the Gazette post site yesterday "Colchester Glorified Euthanasia Clinic".
Transporter1.

Colonel Kurtz wrote:
What may have a factor is over 60% of the doctors are foreign trained and the language barrier is sometimes shockingly bad to patients and colleagues. Why we can't train UK doctors is beyond me.

There you go I've said it. Some hysterical people will call me a racist for speaking the truth but we live in a democracy and free speech is still legal.

Your so right here. But this is the way it is over here.
We got this system that is broken called the NHS. It is ran by people that are only interested in one thing. NUMBERS.= MONEY.
The NHS should be people that take care of the sick, and pay less attention to the above mentioned.
My wife was up there on that ward last year. They were rude and arrogant.
That so called matron they have up there (foreign) thought that she knew better than the doctors and the patients. Don't stand up for your rights with her. She will have you escorted out of the hospital with a racist claim.

Time we went back to how it was. You got sick, you went to hospital (if must) and the doctors did what they could to cure you and make you better. And the nurses were there to make sure that your stay there was as comfortable as it could. Matron was just another version of head chamber maid in a hotel.

As for the cleanliness of Wivenhoe and Brightlingsea. I have been up there three different times. Each time I have seen blood on the floor, even on toilet systems and seats. Trays left with used needles and bowls of sick left for all to see.

Seen an old patient left in her bed for hours, breakfast left to get cold for more than three hours, only to have it fed to her later.
There was an old lady left for hours in her own poo after an enema.
There were so many things left to go wrong, but all the staff would do was sit around the nurses station.

Come on let them really tell the truth about these wards there. Name and shame the staff and those upstairs that don't give a dam about caring for the sick

Colonel Kurtz wrote:
What may have a factor is over 60% of the doctors are foreign trained and the language barrier is sometimes shockingly bad to patients and colleagues. Why we can't train UK doctors is beyond me.

There you go I've said it. Some hysterical people will call me a racist for speaking the truth but we live in a democracy and free speech is still legal.

It is a pity you mentioned racism because you ask a very pertinent question which is not racist at all.
The reason the UK does not train enough doctors is that the BMA (British Medical Association) wants to restrict the number of doctors, so it restricts the number of places in medical schools.
The other factor of course is that it is now enormously expensive to be a student, and the course for doctors is much longer.
The solution is that the country must train a far greater number of doctors, with students being given 100 per cent scholarships, on condition that on qualification they then go and work for 5 to 10 years as doctors in third world countries, earning local salaries and speaking the local language (Cuba has such a scheme and has benefited many countries in this way for over 40 years). After that they can return to the UK if they wish.
This would have several merits, for instance:
1. In the long run we would have a lot more British doctors.
2. Countries which we have bled dry of their qualified staff would get some useful manpower from us in return.
3. Britain would improve its overseas aid performance.
4. Overseas experience would help to broaden our doctors' outlook.
Yes, it would cost money, but it would be money well spent, far better than squandering it on insane projects like Trident replacement.

As for the two MPs in the story, I agree they sound astoundingly complacent. As romantic says, there have been some horrifying stories about hospital experience from readers on another thread in the last few days. I hope all those people will go and meet their MPs and open their eyes to what is really going on.

One thing our Politicians and Doctors do have in common is they all bury their mistakes!

I have had to visit and be in a number of hospitals over the past few years. I find that Colchester has been one of the best, friendly, professional, caring and helpful. Spikes in deaths over a few years are often to be expected when you look at the demographics around the hospitals catchment area. It is just politicians jumping on bandwagons and spouting things without thought or research. The hidden agenda of the Tories is to destroy the NHS so they can make money for themselves out of providing private health care, they don't care about the population of this country only their own pockets.

Boris wrote:

Colonel Kurtz wrote:
What may have a factor is over 60% of the doctors are foreign trained and the language barrier is sometimes shockingly bad to patients and colleagues. Why we can't train UK doctors is beyond me.

There you go I've said it. Some hysterical people will call me a racist for speaking the truth but we live in a democracy and free speech is still legal.

It is a pity you mentioned racism because you ask a very pertinent question which is not racist at all.
The reason the UK does not train enough doctors is that the BMA (British Medical Association) wants to restrict the number of doctors, so it restricts the number of places in medical schools.
The other factor of course is that it is now enormously expensive to be a student, and the course for doctors is much longer.
The solution is that the country must train a far greater number of doctors, with students being given 100 per cent scholarships, on condition that on qualification they then go and work for 5 to 10 years as doctors in third world countries, earning local salaries and speaking the local language (Cuba has such a scheme and has benefited many countries in this way for over 40 years). After that they can return to the UK if they wish.
This would have several merits, for instance:
1. In the long run we would have a lot more British doctors.
2. Countries which we have bled dry of their qualified staff would get some useful manpower from us in return.
3. Britain would improve its overseas aid performance.
4. Overseas experience would help to broaden our doctors' outlook.
Yes, it would cost money, but it would be money well spent, far better than squandering it on insane projects like Trident replacement.

Well Boris you never cease to amaze me with your thoughts and ideals.
My nephew blood related, is at medical school in his second year, he wants to specialize in cancer research.
In fact I have been talking to him quite a lot and some of the ideas in his head are rather exciting.We are seeking Private funding for him from companies for research relating to his PHD.
I am an elderly bachelor and am funding some of his education.
Your remark about training British doctors and then sending them overseas for voluntary work on some grounding to pay the state back for their investment is rather bonkers.
Our doctors are already doing this on a voluntary basis. There is one GP in the borough who leads a team of Doctors doing this type of work by want and vocation and NOT by some ideal or idiom that is manifesting in a rather obscure grey matter of thought:
As for writer cavillas You are one of the lucky ones are you not????
What about all these people that are dead and their families.
They are Casualties of a very poor and corrupt system my dear friend, This is NOT justified casualties of war.
We are not batting around numbers here in some type of game, this is human local lives we are talking about.
There had to be one flag waving do- gooder coming on this post to back the system up.
What was the issue for you that made it so great? Did they give one of those private single rooms on Mersea Ward?
Or did they ship your food in for you from Pret A Manger on request?
Or was it the fact that you came out ALIVE?
I wish all of you would read the facts and the reports first on both the post sites before you venture out on the Tome type rants of no real substance.

If those at the top will not accept blame for what has happened, why should anybody else further down the chain? This is all about money and targets and bad government. Compassion is a thing of the past because it is inefficient. Get used to it.

I see they didn't invite MP Douglas Carswell.
I doubt he would have rolled over and let them get away with their charm offensive as easily as Russell, and Jenkin seem to have done.

Jess, you ask why should anyone further down the chain accept blame? Well, I say that they should because they are the perpetrators of some of the nastiest acts of neglect and uncaring.
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They are covered by their colleagues and the cycle of neglect goes on. These colleagues who cover for them and close ranks are often better nurses, but probably afraid to say anything for fear of being ostracised by the lazy and cruel who have nothing better to do.
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It's a truly vicious circle, and even takes in some private facilities. So, if you hope to live to old age you should pray there is someone who has the will and the means to change the downward trend. Do you want to be tortured to death by starvation or the wrong treatment?

I personally think the problems are in the past now.however,like hillsbrough only tenacity of a few made everybody wake up.lets make sure we all stay awake.

Why does it take till June to have an expert clinician investigate? 3 months?! If there is a problem why perpetuate it longer?

wellnow, if you think problems are in the past you are very much mistaken.
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What caused these "problems" (a vast understatement of the matter) has not gone away. It is a whole culture of not caring how patients feel, not knowing their suffering, treating them as objects.
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I've recently gone through such an ordeal in a hospital in the South of England. It began with great care en route, continued with nearly 7 hours of despair and agony in A&E, then on to being ignored again but in comfort, then a period of professional correctness, with a "line" in and the appropriate medication.
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On the ward, the noise in the early hours was beyond that one would expect on the streets of the liveliest town on Saturday night. It had nothing to do with nursing or medical matters, just personnel standing at opposite ends of a corridor, shouting their plans for the coming evening. Shoes seemed to be studded with "Blakeys" - remember those?
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Came the dawn, things went quiet. Presumably the staff were exhausted and had run out of grimy gossip? New staff came on and were very correct and reassuring. This was an EAU Dept.
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Dazed, exhausted and just about able to stand, I was fortunate indeed to be picked up by a family member who had driven for 2.5 hours to get me, and who looked after me for the next week.
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Short of some sort of mind-altering brainwashing I can't see how the majority of staff in this hospital will ever improve.

kris H wrote:

Colonel Kurtz wrote:
What may have a factor is over 60% of the doctors are foreign trained and the language barrier is sometimes shockingly bad to patients and colleagues. Why we can't train UK doctors is beyond me.

There you go I've said it. Some hysterical people will call me a racist for speaking the truth but we live in a democracy and free speech is still legal.

Your so right here. But this is the way it is over here.
We got this system that is broken called the NHS. It is ran by people that are only interested in one thing. NUMBERS.= MONEY.
The NHS should be people that take care of the sick, and pay less attention to the above mentioned.
My wife was up there on that ward last year. They were rude and arrogant.
That so called matron they have up there (foreign) thought that she knew better than the doctors and the patients. Don't stand up for your rights with her. She will have you escorted out of the hospital with a racist claim.

Time we went back to how it was. You got sick, you went to hospital (if must) and the doctors did what they could to cure you and make you better. And the nurses were there to make sure that your stay there was as comfortable as it could. Matron was just another version of head chamber maid in a hotel.

As for the cleanliness of Wivenhoe and Brightlingsea. I have been up there three different times. Each time I have seen blood on the floor, even on toilet systems and seats. Trays left with used needles and bowls of sick left for all to see.

Seen an old patient left in her bed for hours, breakfast left to get cold for more than three hours, only to have it fed to her later.
There was an old lady left for hours in her own poo after an enema.
There were so many things left to go wrong, but all the staff would do was sit around the nurses station.

Come on let them really tell the truth about these wards there. Name and shame the staff and those upstairs that don't give a dam about caring for the sick

Yep lets just forget the thousands of people who receive good care and are very happy with the level if attention they received and instead just slaughter the staff for the few occasions that it does go wrong.

Kris H forgive me if I take all that you have alleged to have witnessed with a pinch of salt you're not renowned for telling the truth on these pages.

theequaliser1 wrote:

Boris wrote:

Colonel Kurtz wrote:
What may have a factor is over 60% of the doctors are foreign trained and the language barrier is sometimes shockingly bad to patients and colleagues. Why we can't train UK doctors is beyond me.

There you go I've said it. Some hysterical people will call me a racist for speaking the truth but we live in a democracy and free speech is still legal.

It is a pity you mentioned racism because you ask a very pertinent question which is not racist at all.
The reason the UK does not train enough doctors is that the BMA (British Medical Association) wants to restrict the number of doctors, so it restricts the number of places in medical schools.
The other factor of course is that it is now enormously expensive to be a student, and the course for doctors is much longer.
The solution is that the country must train a far greater number of doctors, with students being given 100 per cent scholarships, on condition that on qualification they then go and work for 5 to 10 years as doctors in third world countries, earning local salaries and speaking the local language (Cuba has such a scheme and has benefited many countries in this way for over 40 years). After that they can return to the UK if they wish.
This would have several merits, for instance:
1. In the long run we would have a lot more British doctors.
2. Countries which we have bled dry of their qualified staff would get some useful manpower from us in return.
3. Britain would improve its overseas aid performance.
4. Overseas experience would help to broaden our doctors' outlook.
Yes, it would cost money, but it would be money well spent, far better than squandering it on insane projects like Trident replacement.

Well Boris you never cease to amaze me with your thoughts and ideals.
My nephew blood related, is at medical school in his second year, he wants to specialize in cancer research.
In fact I have been talking to him quite a lot and some of the ideas in his head are rather exciting.We are seeking Private funding for him from companies for research relating to his PHD.
I am an elderly bachelor and am funding some of his education.
Your remark about training British doctors and then sending them overseas for voluntary work on some grounding to pay the state back for their investment is rather bonkers.
Our doctors are already doing this on a voluntary basis. There is one GP in the borough who leads a team of Doctors doing this type of work by want and vocation and NOT by some ideal or idiom that is manifesting in a rather obscure grey matter of thought:
As for writer cavillas You are one of the lucky ones are you not????
What about all these people that are dead and their families.
They are Casualties of a very poor and corrupt system my dear friend, This is NOT justified casualties of war.
We are not batting around numbers here in some type of game, this is human local lives we are talking about.
There had to be one flag waving do- gooder coming on this post to back the system up.
What was the issue for you that made it so great? Did they give one of those private single rooms on Mersea Ward?
Or did they ship your food in for you from Pret A Manger on request?
Or was it the fact that you came out ALIVE?
I wish all of you would read the facts and the reports first on both the post sites before you venture out on the Tome type rants of no real substance.

Equaliser, you tell me "Your remark about training British doctors and then sending them overseas for voluntary work on some grounding to pay the state back for their investment is rather bonkers."
What is bonkers about it? If your nephew is able to get through medical school with private funding and/or is happy to have an immense student loan to repay, then obviously he has no problem. I was trying to address the problem of those students who do not have access to such funds.
The fact is that Cuba has shown the way, and we should not be so blinkered as to reject an idea just because it was not invented here.

All of this is incredibly sad.
The two posts on this debacle and the corresponding two press reports on both Thursday and Friday evenings where appropriate but somewhat saddening.
As a proud born and bred Colcestrian of some 52 years, my personal thoughts draw moments of utter despair and depression of the way the Borough has turned out over the last 15 years.
What on earth has happened here? One Beggars Belief!
The violence in the town over the last 10 months, coupled with the awful behavior in the summer on the previous year, leaves ones head in your hands when reading and hearing reports like this.
This is not the Colchester that I know and love dearly from days gone by.
Surveys quoting the borough as the 16th or so most happiest and contented place to leave in the UK, make confusing statistics when we now have reports that we are one of 5 NHS trusts being investigated for the aforementioned issues.
Over 2000 deaths appears to be quite a lot of people that have passed away.
This will obviously be backed up against successful patient treatments from the trust.
My own personal experiences of the Trust is not very good and nor of my close family ie Mother,Father My Wife and Son's either.
However the criticisms of the trust here on this site has been well voiced, so there would be no need for me to interject and worsen the claims any further.
It is only right and fair that any and all of us that have issues speak out and have ones voices heard.
You only have one life if you have not the ability to pay for Healthcare Privately, then one is reliant on a benevolent system such as this, to be looked after and cared for.
When a system goes wrong or encounters problems and issues, collectively we should all have a voice or opinion and be able to demonstrate disconcertion or dissatisfaction together.
There is no point or gain in burying heads in the sand any longer.
The Trust should consider holding an open meeting and inviting all Colchester people forward, to interject and voice concerns.
John Vencato.

John Vencato wrote:
All of this is incredibly sad.
The two posts on this debacle and the corresponding two press reports on both Thursday and Friday evenings where appropriate but somewhat saddening.
As a proud born and bred Colcestrian of some 52 years, my personal thoughts draw moments of utter despair and depression of the way the Borough has turned out over the last 15 years.
What on earth has happened here? One Beggars Belief!
The violence in the town over the last 10 months, coupled with the awful behavior in the summer on the previous year, leaves ones head in your hands when reading and hearing reports like this.
This is not the Colchester that I know and love dearly from days gone by.
Surveys quoting the borough as the 16th or so most happiest and contented place to leave in the UK, make confusing statistics when we now have reports that we are one of 5 NHS trusts being investigated for the aforementioned issues.
Over 2000 deaths appears to be quite a lot of people that have passed away.
This will obviously be backed up against successful patient treatments from the trust.
My own personal experiences of the Trust is not very good and nor of my close family ie Mother,Father My Wife and Son's either.
However the criticisms of the trust here on this site has been well voiced, so there would be no need for me to interject and worsen the claims any further.
It is only right and fair that any and all of us that have issues speak out and have ones voices heard.
You only have one life if you have not the ability to pay for Healthcare Privately, then one is reliant on a benevolent system such as this, to be looked after and cared for.
When a system goes wrong or encounters problems and issues, collectively we should all have a voice or opinion and be able to demonstrate disconcertion or dissatisfaction together.
There is no point or gain in burying heads in the sand any longer.
The Trust should consider holding an open meeting and inviting all Colchester people forward, to interject and voice concerns.
John Vencato.

They do hold occasional meetings, in order to tick a box, but then they take no action on points that anyone raises, except for some utterly trivial detail.

Boris says...
12:46am Mon 11 Feb 13
They do hold occasional meetings, in order to tick a box, but then they take no action on points that anyone raises, except for some utterly trivial detail.

(Yes Understood Thank you Boris+)

We don't care what nationality the nurses or doctors are as long as they show empathy and compassion. Not like the ignorant morons they have on Wivenhoe and Brightlingsea ward. Sack the lot of them they are a waste of space, incompetent, have no feelings, no morals and bone idle. Are they waiting for more deaths at the hands of these nurses before they do someting about it. We need action now. To say Colchester General is safer than ever before is the biggest pile of bull we have ever heard! Obviously none of these people have been a patient on the ward known as The Death wards!

We should be very sceptical of any assurances given by any hospital board.
We have a report today that an ex CEO of Lincs hospital was paid £500,000 by Sir David Nicholson to keep quiet when he raised concerns about dangerous target culture and lack of hospital care.
It seems that hospital managements have implemented 'targets culture' that has cost lives instead of cultures of care!.

It was no surprise to see both our local MPs Bob Russell and Bernard Jenkins NOT pass up the opportunity for some TV exposure last week regarding the announcement that Colchester General Hospital is going to be investigated for the high mortality rates. It was even more NO surprise that they joined forces in stating that they were "reassured" that the CGH would be "absolved" from any scandal. The above two representatives of our local community, the people who are supposed to give balance and checks regarding our social welfare have done exactly the opposite of what the nation is actually calling for i.e. Openess and Truthfulness. This is similar to the Kitchen assistant story in Gt Tey where the authorities all closed rank and ignored the facts and sacked the Dinner lady. Well that situation has now been turned around and the dinner lady has been vindicated. Its the same with these two who are very good at supporting the "Status Quo" Closing rank and pulling up the drawbridges. By stating that they are "reassured" from just one meeting of no particular length they are doing exactly what the Hospital leadership had done for years and that is bury the truth and for gods sake make sure nobody talks to the press on fear of dismissal, yes this was the directive sent out by the Trust last week. The fact is that CGH is understaffed on the front line and has poor moral and the accountability for getting things done does not exist. I had occasion to write to Bob Russell in his capacity as a local MP regarding the standard of care some 18 months ago, his response to me was that i was not in his "WARD" as i resided in Stanway and that i should contact my Witham MP. Well Bob i can say with certainty that CGH is definitely in your back yard. I think that says enough about him as a caring person. In conclusion we have two senior local politicians endorsing the high mortality rate without the slightest clue whats going on and until we get Truthfull and Openess back into our local politics nothing will change.